Melanie (00:00) Dana, thank you so much for coming back on to the Homeschool Sanity Show. So we can discuss one of my favorite topics. And it is one of my favorite topics because I don't feel that I have conquered it. but I do think that you have so much to share that will help me and our audience with respect to procrastination. So let's jump right into it. and not procrastinate. Right. And so Dana K White (00:30) Not put off. Yeah, not yeah. Melanie (00:33) I would love to have you tell us about why you think we procrastinate on things that we genuinely want to do. We want to have them done, but we put it off anyway. Dana K White (00:47) Yeah, there's lots of reasons, of course. a lot of times it c it boils down to overthinking. And it we overthink because we tend to be very highly creative people. So the title of the book is procrastinators get stuff done. And part of it, part of actually being able to move forward is embracing this identity of, okay, this is my natural tendency. When I'm faced with something that overwhelms me, my natural tendency, even if it doesn't overwhelm me in a way that I would automatically acknowledge, right? But I just face something I'm like, I'll do that later. Like, you know, I'm just gonna do that later. And a lot of times it comes be from this this creativity that we have because we have so many different things that we would like to be doing. We have so many things that interest us. We have so many things that are on our you know, miles long list of things that I would really like to do someday. And then those get mixed in with all the things that I have to do. and then we end up in this situation where we're just stuck because the sheer number of things that we should do, have to do, plus want to do is overwhelming. And we feel like I can't move forward on On any of it. Or or maybe I'm here's the other thing too, I always want to say this is my approach to procrastination is not a productivity approach. Okay. Obviously, to be more productive, you have to beat procrastination. So sure, you can use it for that. But that's not the angle that I'm going for because specifically you're talking to homeschool moms. They have enough going on. They're they're being productive. Like they are constantly working and going and doing, and they already feel exhausted. So this idea that Procrastination is the opposite of productivity, meaning if I'm gonna beat procrastination, that's gonna make me productive, but I'm already overloaded with all the things that I'm doing. That backfires, right? It makes Melanie (03:18) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (03:18) me go, well, okay. So the only answer is to hustle more. And I'm like, that's not what we're doing here. It's how do I move forward when I feel completely stuck? The opposite of procrastination isn't productivity, it's Progress. And I feel like I've just rambled a long time from that first question. Melanie (03:33) No, no. and I think what you've done, honestly, is give us a great introduction to what we're going to be talking about. One of the things that you didn't mention with respect to that first question, and I know that you address, is perfectionism. Because I think that also plays a part for some of us with respect to putting things off. Can you talk about that? How can we break that cycle that we have too? Dana K White (04:05) Yeah. so many times when we are procrastinating, we don't feel fully equipped to do the thing. To match the vision of that thing that we have in our head. Right. Like maybe somebody wants to start a business. You have all these things and you have this very perfect vision in your head of what it's gonna be. And yet where I actually am right now, overwhelmed, not keeping up with the things that I already do have right in front of me, the distance between where I actually am and this vision I have in my head is so far that I don't know what to do to to get there, you know, so everything that I teach is based on what I learned getting my own home under control and then helping so many people get their homes under control. Right. Like this was the vision that I had. I thought that I wanted a home that could be photographed for magazines, right? Like that's what I thought I wanted. But the home I was actually looking at, I couldn't even see the surfaces because they were covered in piles of stuff. I you know, had some rooms that I could barely walk into. Like that's that's the extreme that I was at. And so to think that this is this perfect vision and this is where I actually am. it can be an issue for sure. But I don't pre approach it as, just let go of the perfectionism and you'll be fine. No, let's look at it as the perfectionism is keeping me stuck. Way back here. So instead, Melanie (05:50) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (05:51) I'm gonna redefine my goal and say, even if that is my goal, even if that's what I want to go for. So I don't have to give up on that dream because so many times we're like, well, I don't want to Melanie (06:00) Well. Dana K White (06:01) give up on my perfectionism because I really do have this great dream. Okay, but if I'm not moving forward, this is backfiring. And so instead, Melanie (06:09) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (06:10) I say, My goal right now is to move forward. My goal is progress. I'm gonna count Progress as success, because if I ever get here, I have to make progress from here. And so I'm gonna move and count every teeny tiny little step as progress. And then what usually ends up happening is by the time I get here, this looks different. You know, the that Melanie (06:36) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dana K White (06:37) that vision looks different, but I don't have to let go of that vision in order to get started. I just have to change my goal to be. progress right now. Melanie (06:49) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I I just love that because it is, it's such an emotional issue when we have a vision in mind of what we're trying to achieve. And when someone says, Well, that's ridiculous, just let that go. Then we can even lose the passion for making progress. So I I love that you're saying, Okay, hold on to that. But the way to get there is to one, you know, focus on the step in front of you rather than the final destination. And as you say, it can change. And it almost always does. Dana K White (07:26) Yes. And and it does, it does, but I don't have to adjusting my goal is not the the key to getting started. And procrastination is about getting started, right? So by Melanie (07:42) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Dana K White (07:43) the time I'm here, okay, I know things that I had no idea about back here. Like I I am in the middle of it. I have a real understanding of things that were just kind of this vague dream. And I was trying to pin it down in my head, but I never could. But once I get to actually in the middle of things, I'm different. My understanding is different. The the size of the project is so much less overwhelming. And like for my house, what happened was I got to a point where I realized, actually I don't care about having a magazine picture perfect home. I just care about a home that's functional, meaning I can Melanie (08:28) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (08:28) have people in at a moment's notice. I can do what I need to do when I need to do it and not have my house hold me back. And I was like, okay, that's actually great. And here I am. So I got to about Melanie (08:40) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (08:41) here and I went, I got to probably here, you know, and I was like, okay, I'm done. Like, I I mean, not that you're ever done with your house, but that idea of I didn't have to. Melanie (08:52) No, right. Dana K White (08:54) get all the way to the perfectionism and I'm so much happier for it because I went ahead and got started. Melanie (09:03) Mm-hmm. I feel like you've again given us a preview to the process that you teach people to getting free from procrastination. There are steps that you have in this process that we can take. So, can you walk us through what that might look like with a homeschooling mom who is wanting to declutter curriculum that she isn't using. And I can make this very personal, even though I quit homeschooling four years ago now, I have curriculum and I'm trying to decide, okay, what what do I do? I just I'm not sure if I will want to use this with my grandkids. I'm not sure if I'm going to need this for creating new curriculum myself in the future. And so that is stressful for me. So I would just rather not deal with it. So that is Dana K White (10:04) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Melanie (10:05) an example that you can use. Dana K White (10:07) Sure, sure. So I also have never homeschooled, right? But I look at every situation. I'm going to answer this one as a decluttering question. Is that okay? And yeah, Melanie (10:16) Yes. sure, of course. Dana K White (10:18) actually I'm gonna combine them. I'm gonna combine decluttering and and because ever my anti-procrastination process is a five-step process that I created based on what I learned teaching people to declutter. Okay. So Let's start with the anti-procrastination process. The first step of this process is to look. Okay. So Melanie (10:37) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (10:41) it feels like that should not be a step. Because if I do anything at all, I'm gonna have to look at it. I mean, come on, why would you make that its own step? But the key to beating procrastination is forward movement, it's progress. And I'm gonna count the very smallest thing as success. And the literal smallest thing I can do is to look purposefully at this stuff because your brain is spinning out on it, right? You're like, what about grandkids? What about this? What about that? What about this? Okay. And that's not being helpful to you. Okay, because it's keeping you stuck. So to give yourself permission to say, I'm just going to look at it. That means there is no pressure to make a decision. Attached to that looking because we are counting every step as success. So if step one of the anti-procrastination process is to look, that means you go and you say, All I'm doing today, there is no pressure attached. That's all I'm doing is I'm gonna go look through this curriculum. And you're like, but I already know what's there. Maybe you do. And when you get there, it's gonna take you three minutes. And you just go, Yeah, I knew everything that was here. How long has it been since you've looked at it though? Melanie (12:10) Well, I just did. But before Dana K White (12:12) Okay, perfect. Melanie (12:13) before that? a long time. Dana K White (12:18) Okay, so since you did look, did you were you surprised by anything when you looked? Melanie (12:25) Mm. Dana K White (12:26) Tell me what you were surprised by. Melanie (12:29) I have books I don't I don't remember how I got them. I don't know, you know, what the purpose was. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Dana K White (12:39) So in your mind ahead of time, you thought you knew what was in there. Melanie (12:43) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (12:43) You thought you knew the importance of things. It felt like Melanie (12:47) Okay. Dana K White (12:47) it was a big, you know, a bunch of important stuff in there. But when you looked, it immediately revealed that a lot of that stuff wasn't as important, right? Because you didn't remember it. Melanie (13:02) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (13:02) And that happens in all procrastination situations. So many times, a Big piece of the reason that we're procrastinating is that we are scared of the unknown. We're like, what am I gonna find out? What is this? I bet you everything in there is important. Everything in there is probably gonna be a really hard decision to make. If I give myself permission to just look with no action attached to that, and I'm gonna count looking as a success because it's part of a process that's in a New York Times bestselling book. you know, that's the permission that I'm giving people, right? So it you go into this situation with no pressure attached, and you're just relieving pressure because now you know what's in there. And so many times you find out that it's less scary than you expected. That there are things in there that are gonna be easy for you to get rid of. Okay. Even if you don't, even if it is more scary, you still have to look at you Melanie (14:07) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (14:07) you have to, right? And so having that as a step of the process is the first thing that you do. And then often whi when did you look at this? Melanie (14:18) Wednesday. Mm-hmm. Dana K White (14:19) Wednesday, okay. Tell me how and we are speaking on Tuesday, so it's been almost a week. Melanie (14:24) Yes. Mm-hmm. Dana K White (14:26) Tell me what random thoughts have run through your brain between Wednesday and today about this stuff. Melanie (14:36) okay. I thought I should have decluttered a bunch of it because I probably won't need it either for grandkids or for a future curriculum. Dana K White (14:50) Well, we're not gonna worry about the shoulds, right? Because that's not helpful. But but Melanie (14:53) Well that's what I was doing. Yes. Dana K White (14:57) the thing to pay attention to is how your brain has adjusted to that. Before it was scary Melanie (15:01) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (15:02) and you assumed it was all important and it was all gonna be like, no, what do I do? What do I do? You Melanie (15:06) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (15:07) looked at it with nothing attached to that, no, no obligation attached. Now Melanie (15:10) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (15:11) it's almost a week later, and you're like, yeah. There's I could go in there right now and get rid of What do you think? How much of it? What percentage of it do you think? Melanie (15:23) Probably I could probably get like a third of it maybe. Dana K White (15:28) That's a big deal, and you are Melanie (15:29) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Dana K White (15:30) now ready, and that third does not even scare you anymore simply because you looked. Melanie (15:34) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dana K White (15:38) So that's how we face any procrastination situation. I'm gonna count looking as success, even if that's all I do today. I have heard from so many people already. The book's been out for like two weeks, I think. I've heard from so many people who tell me. That was literally the only step I needed. Melanie (15:59) Hmm. Dana K White (16:00) Like as soon as I looked, with nothing, no obligation attached, that is what gave me the freedom to look. And then I looked and I was like, okay, I can do this, this, and that. it's done. I I mean, I'm Melanie (16:12) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (16:13) hearing from all these people who are like, I had put off doing this thing for 15 years. I mean, like, I'm hearing that story again and again. And Melanie (16:18) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dana K White (16:20) that that giving yourself permission to just look in the beginning is key. Okay, but let's keep going. Melanie (16:26) Okay. Dana K White (16:26) the second step of the anti procrastination process is to do the easy stuff. So what that means is I I defined easy as decision free. Okay, because Melanie (16:37) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (16:38) so many times, almost all the time, the reason that we're procrastinating is that we think that whatever it is that we need to do is gonna require so many decisions to be made, hard decisions, life changing, life altering decisions. We assume that and so we put it off because we think I don't have the emotional energy right now to make those kinds of decisions, right? Like maybe Melanie (17:04) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (17:04) maybe I don't know enough. Maybe I whatever, like I can't see the future. you know, we all want to see the future, right? Do we though? But Melanie (17:12) Yeah. Dana K White (17:16) but we go with step two, and this is the same step as in my no mess decluttering process. Easy stuff. In the decluttering process, I describe it this way. What in this space has an established home other than here? Right. In my anti-procrastination process, do the easy stuff means what is it that I can go ahead and do right now completely that I already know would have to be done if I ever actually got the bigger thing done? So the bigger thing is for you to figure out. Am I gonna keep this or not? Right, as far as your procrastination. So, in Melanie (17:55) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dana K White (17:58) this step two, you're you're saying, what is it that I already know would have to be done? Well, I already know that these books that don't matter need to get donated, right? And so I'm gonna go Melanie (18:10) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (18:11) ahead and I'm gonna do that. Is there anything else that you saw that you're like, okay, actually, I do already know what to do with that? Melanie (18:19) Yeah, used workbooks. I had some used workbooks. Bye bye. So I knew those were trash. Yes. Dana K White (18:25) Yeah. Yes. Yes. Exactly. So so you're breaking it down. All these are the things that you've probably had swirling around in your head as you think about this big daunting thing, like, my goodness, I I have got to deal with this. There's probably gonna be this, and then I'll have to do this. And it instead of saying all that, we're just gonna say, what is it right in front of me that I can go ahead and do right now? Melanie (18:51) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (18:52) And then I'm gonna do that teeny tiny piece of it, and I'm gonna count every little thing I do as legitimate success. Because if I was ever to get here, that would have to be done. And so as long as I'm doing it, I'm moving toward this thing that's overwhelming to me, but that I want to do, right? And then the third step is non-committal experimentation. So that's the third step of my anti-procrastination process. This is the antidote. to perfectionism. This is how to move forward, even though fear of failure or fear of making the wrong decision, whatever, is holding me back. At this point, I have already made this, I'm already so much closer to my project because I've just done the easy stuff. And a lot of times doing the easy stuff gets me all the way to the end. But even if Melanie (19:46) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (19:47) it doesn't, and I I feel like, okay, I've I don't see anything else easy to do. I don't see anything else that I already know to do. Then I'm going to experiment for the purpose of finding out what works. And the non-committal part of it. Is the thing that frees me to do that because I am not saying this is the perfect way. I am not saying I'll ever do it this way again. I am just experimenting for the purpose of finding out what works, which means if I fail, I've actually succeeded because I've learned something that doesn't work. Right. And so Melanie (20:29) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dana K White (20:30) that freedom to move forward so often we non-committally experiment and then we go, well now it's done because that worked. what do you think that could look like in this situation for you? Melanie (20:46) so one strategy that I have been thinking about since I looked is that I could simply set aside the things that are absolutely yes, I want to keep. They are things that are no longer in publication. so you know, even even if I never help homeschool my grandkids and I just have grandkids over, these might be books that I want to pull out and use with them. So to focus on the absolute yeses and to put those back on my shelf instead of like what shouldn't I, what what should I get rid of? Dana K White (21:30) Yeah. I I think that's great. the container concept, right? Like I know we've talked about this Melanie (21:33) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Dana K White (21:35) in previous episodes where we've talked together. the container Melanie (21:37) Yes. Dana K White (21:38) concept of what part of my bookshelf can I devote to possible things for educating my grandchildren? Whether, you know, whether it's homeschool, whatever, but like so so that means I can't give it space that I need for. the things that you're actually doing right now. And and and this I I love it because The way I came up with noncommittal experimentation being such a game changer was as I would teach decluttering, and I would say, you know, it is so much more powerful to take it there now and to to do this thing. And people have lots and lots of scenarios in their mind of why that wouldn't work. Right. And no, no, no. Melanie (22:29) Right. Dana K White (22:31) I would get distracted. no, no, no. This would happen, that would happen, that would happen. And I'm like, but you're just saying woods, right? And so let's experiment with it. Like you don't have to decide ahead of time that choosing a space and to to designate to this stuff, you don't have to know ahead of time exactly, you know, how much space would it work? No, you're like, this is the space I'm gonna choose, and I am gonna devote this space to this, and then I'm gonna try. Taking out my top things and putting them in there. And as we always tell people, just experiment with the take it there now. Experiment Melanie (23:12) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (23:13) with the not having to figure it all out ahead of time and going ahead and doing the action to see if it works. If you don't believe it, you're not saying, you don't have to say that you believe this is going to work before you try it if you're doing non committal experimentation. Your Melanie (23:30) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (23:30) whole purpose could be to prove me wrong. I know there are a lot of people who have tried my methods simply Melanie (23:36) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (23:37) to prove me wrong. And guess what happens? They find out I'm right. But it's but that non-committal Melanie (23:41) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (23:45) experimentation is the freedom to try it to see if it works. And if it doesn't work, great. I mean, my decluttering strategies work. Like they've improved so many times, right? But but Melanie (23:55) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dana K White (23:57) even if they don't work, you've still made progress because the whole point. Step three of the process is noncommittal experimentation. If you do something that doesn't work, you have still moved forward because you are going through the process. Melanie (24:13) I love it. And I I just wanted to expand a little bit on when you said, you know, take it there, take it there now. You're referring to part of your decluttering method where if I found a book that does not belong with all of this used old curriculum and it actually goes in my bedroom where I have my personal reading books. Okay. what you have said is that I could, take it to my bedroom right then so that I'm not making a bigger mess of pulling everything out, right? which I love that part of your method. But then you have the added suggestion to if I find this book that belongs in my bedroom. I can also do a quick look around for other things that belong in my bedroom, right? And Dana K White (25:10) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Melanie (25:12) take those with me too. Dana K White (25:15) Yes. Yeah, the take it there now. I came up with that for myself because because I am distractable, which I people are as like, I'm too distractable to do that. I'm like, the whole reason I do the take it there now is because I'm so distractable. Melanie (25:30) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (25:30) And if I will take things there now and not make piles, then when I get distracted, not if I get distracted, which is even for the not as distractable as me person, the mom who is homeschooling. has things coming at her all the time as distractions, right? Like they just happen. And so taking it there now means that when I get distracted, I've never put myself in a position where I'm like, no, I'm worse off because of you know all these piles that I've made. that's actually the key. Like that strategy, when I created it for myself, and then I would teach it. And then I I did a survey at one point. And I said, Hey, what are the most helpful strategies for you? And these were people who had either been formally diagnosed with ADHD or had, you know, self-diagnosed with ADHD. And I was shocked that everybody said, It's the take it there now. That's the game-changing strategy for me. And so I I saw that, okay, it's not just me that this helps, it's actually a strategy. So so then that is ultimately where this procrastination process came from. Is I saw the power of going ahead and doing the teeny tiny things so that the progress that I make is legitimate progress. Before I would always have this. Like, okay, let me work myself up into a frenzy so that I can start really huge and maybe it'll push me through a little bit further than it did before. And then I would fail spectacularly again and again and again. And then every time I failed, I it was harder to not procrastinate the next time because I was like, well, we all know how this is gonna end, right? So that little teeny tiny bits of progress is more effective to actually move me forward. And that's where this anti-procrastination process came. in because I'm like Melanie (27:27) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (27:27) I started applying this mindset I was figuring out from taking physical items immediately to their homes. I was applying that to all sorts of things in my life, not just physical items. Melanie (27:44) Mm. Okay, so should we keep the last couple of steps in your anti procrastination method for people who read the book? Dana K White (27:56) I mean, I if if you know me, I never like hold back. I'm just not a holder backer person. I will tell you you're gonna get a lot more from the book, you know. but Melanie (28:06) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (28:07) no, so the the last two steps are step four is to make your plan. And this gives me great delight when I share this with people. So I'm like, did y'all catch the fact? That step four is to make your plan. It is not that we as procrastinators don't know how to make a plan. We can make a plan. And then we'd never get started. And then we make our plan even more elaborate, right? Like making a plan, I can do that. Executing a plan, you know. So for me, okay, and for so many of the people that I teach. It needs to be a red flag when something is overwhelming me and I am stuck in planning mode. Melanie (29:03) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (29:04) It needs to be a red flag that I'm not, I'm actually procrastinating. So step steps one through three, I have to look. Meaning, if I am making a plan before I have actually looked at my situation, I am not making a plan that's based in reality. But so many times Melanie (29:27) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (29:27) I have not opened my eyes and looked at my real situation before I make this. huge detailed plan. Okay. Step two is do the easy stuff. What are the things I already know would have to be done? If I will do those things, I am in the actual middle of it. So that the plan I'm making is based on real true understanding and experience. It's also by the time I make my plan, this overwhelming thing has gotten a lot smaller. Because I've already done a lot of it. Therefore, it's less overwhelming, but it's based in reality too, based on what I've done. If I haven't non-committally experimented yet, I'm not ready to make a plan. So there steps one through three are the things I do before I make my plan. So that by the time I make my plan, I'm ready and I really understand what I'm dealing with. And it's not unnecessarily. large and overwhelming. Okay. and Melanie (30:34) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (30:34) then step four is to finish. the finish line often looks different than you thought before you got started. And Melanie (30:44) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (30:47) also, how many times have we really tried to visualize the finish line and think that we had to really understand exactly what the finish line would look like before we ever even get started? But I'm not even gonna worry about that until I have worked my way through, you know, steps one through four. And at that point, I'm ready to to you know to finish, Sometimes we don't have a choice about picking your your finish line. Like this is the finish line, someone else has determined it, and you're working toward it. But so Melanie (31:16) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dana K White (31:17) many times we are procrastinating on things that ultimately we get to decide what that finish line looks like. And but we're not ready to figure that out until we've worked our way through the process. Melanie (31:35) Hmm. Well, I love it. So now I'm ready to go and we gotta wrap up this interview so I can get all that curriculum stuff going. Yeah, I'm sure. Dana K White (31:45) love to hear about it. Yeah. I would love it. Yeah. Melanie (31:48) No, but I mean it's really it is honestly that is very helpful. I think just to break it down that way, the way that you did. So I would love to Hear what you have to say as maybe like a a wrap-up question before we talk about your book, which I can't wait to talk about. can you give some advice for the mom who starts projects and she's all about it? She's super excited and motivated, and she struggles to finish them. How can she get unstuck when her motivation just seems to disappear? Dana K White (32:33) every time this happens, which it feels like the right thing to do, right? Like to kind of like get in the right mindset, psych myself up and and go. But every Melanie (32:42) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (32:42) time the fizzle happens, then the next time I think, I gotta gather up that wasn't enough energy that I gathered up last time. I've got to gather up Melanie (32:50) Mm, mm-hmm. Dana K White (32:51) more. And so then it's harder and it's harder and it's harder. So At any point you can use my anti-procrastination process. even if you fizzle in the middle of something or if you have crashed and burned spectacularly and you're like, I just don't know how to get back to doing this, you start with the process. That it in the same way that with my decluttering process, at any point when you're feeling overwhelmed. You go, okay, I can just look for trash. All right, that's something. You know, we're Melanie (33:21) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (33:22) gonna do the same thing here. Okay, I'm gonna look. Where am I in this situation? What does my calendar look like? What does this what have I already accomplished? What have what am I doing? and then okay, what is I ask myself anytime I feel overwhelmed and stuck, Melanie (33:39) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (33:41) I ask myself, what is the smallest thing? I could do right now completely, that would have to be done anyway, if this overall thing was ever to be accomplished. And it's not glamorous, but it gets me moving. I mean, that Melanie (34:02) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (34:03) question asking that over and over and over, because the reality is you can make a lot of progress. without expending emotional energy, which so many times we're thinking it's physical energy that we're lacking when in reality it's emotional energy. Like Melanie (34:23) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (34:23) a homeschool mom makes so many decisions every single day for so many people. Melanie (34:29) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (34:29) And the thought of more decisions is exhausting. And so identifying what I can do without expending emotional energy is incredibly powerful. to get you moving, to get you moving again, to get out of that crash and burn situation that Melanie (34:47) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (34:48) you are in, i it looking for those zero emotional energy things to to do. Melanie (34:57) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, so good. Okay. I've procrastinated long enough asking you about your book. Tell us about your New York Times best selling book. Dana K White (35:15) first of all, I'm so excited about that. Melanie (35:16) Yeah. Dana K White (35:18) I've had some friends who are like, so are you really? And I'm like, no. It's like the most exciting thing that's ever happened in my whole career. I'm super excited. Melanie (35:25) Ha ha ha. Dana K White (35:28) yeah. So it is based on what I learned from decluttering my own home as someone whose house was completely out of control, and then teaching thousands and thousands of people to do the same, like teaching I've answered quite literally every possible decluttering question. Through answering all those questions, through identifying the roadblocks that people face, I found myself applying what I had learned through decluttering to my own overwhelming procrastination situations that had nothing to do with my house. I would find myself overwhelmed and go, okay, I'm just gonna look. Okay, I'm just gonna look. In the same way that I would look for trash in a clutter situation. And then Melanie (36:17) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (36:18) I would. Okay, what's the smallest thing that I can do right now? So I would find myself doing this. And then I started hearing from other people who said, now that I have conquered my clutter using your no mess decluttering process from my book decluttering at the speed of life, they were experiencing the same thing. They were like, it's changing how I look at all sorts of overwhelming situations. And I was like, well, then that feels like there's something there, you know, because I was beating Melanie (36:44) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (36:44) procrastination. I realized all along I've been teaching people how to beat procrastination. Procrastination, how to face an overwhelming situation, get started with the lowest expenditure of emotional energy possible, keep moving and get all the way to the end, even when you face roadblocks along the way. And so I decided to put that into a book about procrastination because there are people who need this that might never read a book about decluttering, right? Like they may never they may never read decluttering at the speed of life and then be able to transfer it to other areas. So I'm like Let's just go ahead and create a process that works for any decluttering situation. Melanie (37:25) Absolutely. And Dana K White (37:26) So here we are. Yeah. Melanie (37:27) I love it. Give us the title again. Dana K White (37:30) It's called Procrastinators Get Stuff Done. That is actually a fake book back there. Because Melanie (37:37) it is. Dana K White (37:38) I'm in my office and I have my new books. So we've had it's done really well. And it was out of stock everywhere. And so I ended up I had a speaking event and I sold every single copy that I had, even the one that we were gonna send back to the distributor because two pages were ripped out of the back. Like Every single copy sold and I was like, my goodness. So I just have the fake one that I was using all summer as I recorded videos before I actually got a copy of it. But anyway, so but yeah, it's it's out there wherever books are sold. And I think most places have copies. but Melanie (38:19) Mm-hmm. Dana K White (38:19) think we're getting to where people are getting. And obviously the audiobook, the ebook, those are all you can download them immediately. Melanie (38:26) Absolutely. Well, I just love it. and I really think it's going to make a difference in my life and our listeners' lives as well when they get their copy of it. you are on social media, tell us your handle again that you are using. Dana K White (38:48) I am a slob comes clean on Facebook and Instagram. I'm Dana K. White on YouTube. but yeah, I'm all over the place. And it basically you can Google Dana K. White. You have put the K in there to find me. but then you'll you'll find me. I actually have a Wikipedia page now I found out recently. I was like, I didn't know that. Okay. And it's pretty much correct. Melanie (39:11) That is exciting too. Dana K White (39:13) I was like, okay. So I've always heard that, you know, I can't trust what's on there and I'm like, That's not pretty much correct. At least what there was on there when I saw it. So Melanie (39:19) Yay. All right. Well, I'm going to put those links in the show notes. Dana, thank you so much again for taking Dana K White (39:28) Thank you. Melanie (39:29) the time during this busy launch season for you. I have so many friends who absolutely adore you. And when I said, I'm gonna be inter interviewing Dana again, they're like, wow. So so it is an honor. Dana K White (39:45) Thank you. You're always you're always so supportive and so helpful. And I just love coming on and talking to you.